importing images with Coordinates

[rblattler]

I import shp. boundaries and contours and then import an image with the same locations the program does not place it in the same location.

We can convert the image to a shape file, but that is another step to do. I am trying to figure out why the program does not recognize the coordinates on the image when it is in the same format as the boundaries and contours.

I maybe trying to use the program beyond its limits.

I will try doing this in reverse order and see if that works.

Any thoughts?

[jovivier]

Is the image a Geo-tiff? Only geo-tiff images (and Import from Google Earth) know their coordinate position.
In the message that IRRICAD provides when importing a geo-tiff do the reported coordinates match the coordinates provided in the shape file Import dialog?
Did the image and shp file come from the same software hence you know they are using the same format for the coordinates?

[rblattler]

Yes we have tried several different ways. I can bring in the shp boundaries and contours with no issues. The issue lies with the tiff file. It should be all the same coordinate information.

Attached is the error message I receive. I can not send you the tiff files over this forum, but I should be able to email them to the support email address.

Thank you,

Robert

[jovivier]

Robert,

What version of IRRICAD are you running?

[rblattler]

Hi Jo,

I am running 13.28.

I also had Mike Noftle notify me to try bringing the file in as meters. All the files are set in meters so we are comparing apples to apples. NDVI and EM images are all set the same way so if we can figure out how to bring these in with the shp file boundaries and contours we are set. I would like to do this with this program so we can maximize the irrigation design on a field by field bases. If it would be better to setup a WebEx so I can show you what is going on I am open to that.

Robert

[jovivier]

Robert,

The Geo-tiff appears to have the correct coordinates. In IRRICAD Version 14 I can use the View in Google Earth feature and it seems to display in the correct spot in Google Earth regardless of the IRRICAD import units because it is using UTM.

The message IRRICAD gives upon importing the Geo-tiff is UTM coordinates which are inherently in metres however it will convert these to the import units specified in Settings|Units.

It therefore appears the shape file coordinates are incorrect or is using a different coordinate system.

See the GIS notes about supported coordinate systems located in Help|Help Topics - User Manual - Entering Information into IRRICAD -> Entering a Scale Plan -> Importing a DXF, VCD, DWG, GCD, SHP, MIF, CSV or KML File.

[rblattler]

Hi Jo,

We were able to get a step further with the information you provided. We were able to bring in the boundary and image in UTM WGS84. The problem is we don't want to work in UTMWGS84. Is there a way to reproject this to NAD 83?

We were able to bring the boundary's in under NAD83, but we could not bring the image in on top of it. There are a couple of other export features we will try to see if we could get this to line up.

Thank you,

Robert

[Dan Crosby]

Hi Robert,

Irricad doesn't really use any geographical projection at all. It is simply a planar X, Y system. If you specify a UTM zone, those X,Y coordinates can be equivalent to UTM coordinates for that zone. Whenever Irricad converts lats. and longs. to planar XY, it assumes the lats. and longs. are from WGS84 and converts them to the relevant UTM XY for it's best guess at the correct zone. The reverse is true on export to KML (UTM is converted to lats. and longs. in WGS84).

The original version of NAD83 and WGS84 were identical, in the more recent versions however the difference between them increases as you go west up to around 4 or 5 feet.

In summary, Irricad only works in UTM / WGS84 - if you need NAD83, you will need an external method of re-projection.

Hope that helps,

Dan

[rblattler]

Hi Dan,

This somewhat helps. I think we are trying to use this program beyond its limits. I can bring in NAD 83 boundary lines of our fields, but when I try to bring in images in that same format it does not work. Now we can do that in UTM WGS84 the problem with that is it skews the layout by about 9 degrees.

Now when I go to export this out as an image file all the geo reference data does not follow with this so for us to try and re-project it is not possible.

We have not tried re-projecting it with the shp, cad file export.

Maybe for future versions it would be nice to bring the information in one system and have it also export the files in the same format.

[jbaselga]

I am Irricad new user.
I have tried to import a GeoTif Image. It goes to the right place on the screen, but the image does not come out, just the box.
Any ideas?

[jovivier]

The symptoms you describe point to a large image file size or high resolution image - you will see the image when it is first imported and then when you zoom only the rectangle border will be visible.

Linking rather than embedding the images often helps the issue. If an image is embedded the final file size can make a very large .vcd file (one of the necessary IRRICAD design files).
To change from "embedded" to "linked":-
1. In Select Object mode double-click on the image near the border so that the entire image is highlighted and the Image dialog appears.
2. Uncheck the "Embed" option and click OK.

Restarting the computer and then going to straight to IRRICAD and loading the problem design may help as other programs aren't holding on to required memory. Then changes can be made to the images as required.

Resolution of images is very important.
Here is an idea of the size of an image based on one we fixed for another user:-
7017x9933 pixels – in digital camera terms, that’s around 70 megapixels – i.e. very large.
This was resized to 2123x1500 pixels (~3.2 MP) which displayed perfectly.
Resizing is a simple task and if you don't have a photo editor you can download IrfanView free from the internet.

[jbaselga]

Hi Jo,
Many thanks for your prompt respond.
Yes, the Ortho-photo was about 27 MB. It is not too large… Anyway, I did not embed the image to avoid to have a large project file. Once I imported the image I tried to zoom in and out, but could not make it visible. I saved the project. To my surprise, when I opened the project this morning, the image was there.
I really appreciate your help.
Regards

[rblattler]

KL13.zip

Hi Robert,

Irricad doesn't really use any geographical projection at all. It is simply a planar X, Y system. If you specify a UTM zone, those X,Y coordinates can be equivalent to UTM coordinates for that zone. Whenever Irricad converts lats. and longs. to planar XY, it assumes the lats. and longs. are from WGS84 and converts them to the relevant UTM XY for it's best guess at the correct zone. The reverse is true on export to KML (UTM is converted to lats. and longs. in WGS84).

The original version of NAD83 and WGS84 were identical, in the more recent versions however the difference between them increases as you go west up to around 4 or 5 feet.

In summary, Irricad only works in UTM / WGS84 - if you need NAD83, you will need an external method of re-projection.

Hope that helps,

Dan

Hi Dan,

We are running Irricad version 13.28. I still want to be able to bring in images and boundaries from our GIS software. The problem that we run into is even if we set everything to state plain or UTM the program does not recognize it and will not line up properly. I will send you the files that I am trying to line up. Both files are in meters so you will need to make sure the import settings are set to meters. I just import the .shp files.

My main question is on the newer versions of Irricad can these line up?

Thank you,

Robert

[Dan Crosby]

Hi Robert,

Newer versions of Irricad can import and export KML (Google Earth) files, and can import imagery and elevations directly from Google Earth. Google Earth itself can convert SHP files to KML. Of course there have been many other additions and improvements since v13. Irricad can also now run as a plugin in AutoCAD and BricsCAD (see http://irricadlink.irricad.com/) which may offer more compatibility options.

Note that you can use other planar coordinate systems (like State Plane) - but all data sources must be consistent, including geographical info in GeoTIFF images. As previously noted, Irricad will treat any lat/long data as if it were using the WGS84 projection and convert it to UTM. It does not support any other conversions or projections. All that being said, images can be manually relocated if necessary.

I hope that helps,

Dan

[rblattler]

Hi Robert,

Newer versions of Irricad can import and export KML (Google Earth) files, and can import imagery and elevations directly from Google Earth. Google Earth itself can convert SHP files to KML. Of course there have been many other additions and improvements since v13. Irricad can also now run as a plugin in AutoCAD and BricsCAD (see http://irricadlink.irricad.com/) which may offer more compatibility options.

Note that you can use other planar coordinate systems (like State Plane) - but all data sources must be consistent, including geographical info in GeoTIFF images. As previously noted, Irricad will treat any lat/long data as if it were using the WGS84 projection and convert it to UTM. It does not support any other conversions or projections. All that being said, images can be manually relocated if necessary.

I hope that helps,

Dan

Hi Dan,

We are still struggling with the fact that we should not have to move anything to have both of the files I sent in the last forum, not overlay on top of each other. Moving either of these files defeats the purpose of creating accurate information.

Can you try and see if the files I sent you will overlay in the software you are using?

Thank you,
Robert

[Dan Crosby]

Hi Robert,

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your expectation. The SHP files from the previous post appear to detail two adjacent fields south of Bakersfield, which don't overlap.

In Google Earth they look like this:

GE.png

in Irricad v13.28, like this:

ICv1328.png

As far as I can tell, they have the correct dimensions and are correctly spaced relative to each other in Irricad.

What are you expecting to see?

Dan

[rblattler]

Hi Robert,

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your expectation. The SHP files from the previous post appear to detail two adjacent fields south of Bakersfield, which don't overlap.

In Google Earth they look like this:

GE.png

in Irricad v13.28, like this:

ICv1328.png

As far as I can tell, they have the correct dimensions and are correctly spaced relative to each other in Irricad.

What are you expecting to see?

Dan

Hi Dan,

This was our mistake it should have been 1 field. The field that I was given with the EM data was for the adjacent field that is why they did not line up. I got the program to work properly.
Attached is the overlay that I was expecting.

The other issue we ran into before is trying to export this information into our software the Coordinates/ or location attributes were lost. So when we go to put this into our other software it does not know where to place it. The .shp file should contain all the attributes that we imported into the program. Now that I got the boundary and the EM data imported properly I will try and export out and see what happens.

Thank you,

Robert

[rblattler]

This is a followup to the my last update. When we export the data back out of Irricad unfortunately the attributes from the import are lost. Meaning when our GIS software receives the information exported the IrriCad program our other software that we imported the boundary and the EM data our program does not know where to place the field or any of the data associated with the reference GPS coordinates.

We would think that the attributes would be saved that were imported when you exported the information back out of the program.

Is this something that is fixed with newer versions of Irricad remember I only have V.13.28.
Has anyone else experienced this issue?

Thank you,

Robert Blattler